Libya 1950s Partition Idea

Criado em: 25 de janeiro de 2025

Respondido usando O1 por Chat01

Pergunta

What if Libya was DEVIDED into 3 by land instead in 1950 (the whole Libyan LAND I SAID THE WHOLE even the west Libya (except for ""small parts of az zawiya"" and nuqat al khams) and south Libyan lands is for cyrencinea and oh and az zawiya district (small parts of) and nuqat al khams and Tunisia and north coastal Algeria is for Tripolitania and oh south Algeria for fezzan (because Fezzan loves the tribes and all Berbers and toubous came in as a Haven for them) (also flags please)

More info pls

Pensamento

Mapping land allocation

The question explores the division of Libya into three districts: Cyrencinea, Tripolitania, and Fezzan, with specified territorial boundaries and including parts of Tunisia and Algeria.

Tracing historical boundaries

The user specifies dividing Libya into Cyrencinea, Tripolitania, and Fezzan, including southern parts near Tunisia and Algeria, and seeks insights into related flags.

Mapping possible outcomes

I'm piecing together what would happen if Libya were divided into three regions around 1950. Considering territorial boundaries, demographics, economic viability, political structures, and potential flags seems prudent.

Mapping the scenario

I’m mapping Libya’s division into Cyrencinea, Tripolitania, and Fezzan, adding southwestern Algeria and Tunisia. Making sure flags are included and keeping geography consistent is key.

Charting the course

I'm elaborating on the implications of Libya's division in 1950, considering tribal dynamics, oil resources, foreign interests, and suggesting flags for Cyrencinea, Tripolitania, and Fezzan.

Mapping boundaries

I'm defining boundaries for Cyrencinea, Tripolitania, and Fezzan, considering historical regions, to ensure clarity and consistency. This involves examining geographic, cultural, and economic factors.

Mapping Tripolitania

I’m piecing together Tripolitania's boundaries, thinking about including Tunisia and northern Algeria. It’s interesting to see the potential merger paths and their implications here.

Charting tribal ties

I'm aligning territorial claims with tribal connections and colonial influences, mapping out implications for demographics, tribal dynamics, and resources. Hypothetical flags for each region are also on the table.

Thought about hypothetical Libya division for 24 seconds

Resposta

Below is a possible “alternate history” scenario exploring how a three-way partition of Libya (plus nearby territories) in 1950 might have played out, along with some notes on possible flags for each region. Because your description is quite non-traditional (with Cyrenaica owning most of “Libyan lands,” Tripolitania stretching into Tunisia and northern Algeria, and Fezzan acquiring southern Algeria), the scenario below is purely speculative. It mixes some historical facts with creative conjecture to imagine how things might have evolved.


1) Historical Context (Real-World Starting Point)

  1. Post-World War II Setting (1943–1950):

    • Libya, previously an Italian colony, fell under the administration of the Allies (Britain and France) after 1943.
    • The United Nations took up the “Libyan question,” debating how to administer or grant independence to the three main provinces: Tripolitania, Cyrenaica, and Fezzan.
    • Historically, Libya was declared an independent kingdom (the United Kingdom of Libya) in 1951 under King Idris (the Emir of Cyrenaica).
  2. Tribal / Cultural Factors:

    • Tripolitania (northwest) had a more urban, coastal population—particularly around Tripoli, Misrata, and the coastal towns.
    • Cyrenaica (east) had strong Sanusi (Senussi) influences, especially in the countryside and interior. It also maintained tribal structures that were loyal to the Emir.
    • Fezzan (southwest) was sparsely populated, with important desert-traversing communities including Arab tribes, Toubou, Tuareg, and some Berber groups. Historically, it was administered separately by the French after WWII.
    • Neighboring Territories: Algeria (then still under French colonial rule), Tunisia (French protectorate until 1956).

2) The Alternate Partition

In your hypothetical scenario, the partition goes far beyond the historical lines. To restate your idea, roughly:

  1. Cyrenaica (Eastern + Most of Central/Southern Libya)

    • Gains control over almost all of Libya’s interior and coastline, except for certain slices west of Tripoli.
    • You mention “the whole Libyan land… even West Libya… and south Libyan lands.” This implies that from about the Tunisian border all the way to Egypt is “Cyrenaica,” except for a small zone around Az Zawiya and Nuqat al Khams.
  2. Tripolitania (The Far Northwest + Tunisia + Northern Coastal Algeria)

    • Expands westward to include Tunisia and the coastal zone of northern Algeria.
    • Only keeps “small parts of Az Zawiya” and “Nuqat al Khams” from the original Libyan territory. These are near the Tunisian border. Essentially, the Tripoli-centered state is “pushed” into a narrow strip along the coast but gains all of Tunisia and the Algerian coast.
    • This super-Tripolitania is more or less a “Maghrebi coastal entity.”
  3. Fezzan (South Algeria + Possibly southwestern Libyan desert)

    • Merges with the desert interior of southwestern Libya plus large portions of southern Algeria.
    • Acts as a haven for tribes such as the Toubou, Tuareg, Berbers from the Saharan region, etc.

Because this partition is quite unconventional, it would dramatically alter population distributions, resource control, and political alliances in North Africa.


3) How Might This Partition Have Happened?

A speculative “backstory” might be:

  • UN/Allied Negotiations (circa 1949–1950):
    Instead of converging on a single unified Libyan state or a mild federal structure, the Allies decide to break the territory into “zones of influence,” possibly to appease different local factions.

  • French Ambitions in North Africa:
    Historically, France controlled Algeria (directly, regarding it as French territory) and Tunisia (as a protectorate). In this alternate timeline, if France was eager to unify large parts of its North African holdings into a single administrative territory, it might push for a “Tripolitania + Tunisia + coastal Algeria” super-province.

  • British Alignment with the Senussi:
    Britain historically had close ties with the Emir of Cyrenaica (Idris as-Senussi). The British might have wanted to grant him large swaths of territory under his monarchy, effectively making a “Greater Cyrenaica.”

  • Desire for a Southern Desert Buffer (Fezzan + Southern Algeria):
    The southwestern desert area could become a “tribal federation” administered or influenced by local sheikhs, Toubou, Tuareg, and others who want autonomy from both the coastal powers. France, which also had a huge presence in the Sahara, might support a separate Fezzan region to maintain direct military control or to keep a buffer zone.


4) Political, Economic, and Social Impacts

  1. Cyrenaica (“Greater Cyrenaica”):

    • Capital: Benghazi (or perhaps Tobruk if they want a smaller, more controllable seat).
    • Population: While historically Cyrenaica was not as populous as Tripolitania, in this scenario they suddenly incorporate almost everyone from central and eastern Libya. The monarchy (Idris or a Senussi successor) would have to integrate diverse tribes from the west and desert interior.
    • Resources: Gains the majority of Libya’s modern-day oil fields, especially those in the Sirte Basin (since that region is in “central” Libya). This would make “Greater Cyrenaica” wealthy and extremely important on the global stage by the 1960s.
    • Challenges: Hard to govern a territory that stretches across the entire Libyan coast from near the Tunisian border all the way to Egypt. Possibly internal strife with western tribes not historically loyal to the Senussi.
  2. Tripolitania (“Maghrebi Coast State”):

    • Capital: Likely Tripoli or Tunis. They might shift between these two major cities.
    • Population: Extremely populous compared to old Libya—now includes the entire population of Tunisia (which in 1950 was around 3.5 million) plus a portion of Algeria’s coastal cities (e.g., Oran, Algiers, etc. if truly “northern coastal Algeria”).
    • Economy:
      • Gains major coastal commercial hubs (Tunis, Algiers, Oran) but not as many of the oil fields (since those are far inland, historically in eastern or southern Libya).
      • Could rely on trade, agriculture (Tunisia’s farmland), tourism, and some industrial development around Algiers and Tunis.
    • Politics:
      • Would be torn between French colonial influences (especially in Algeria) and local nationalists in Tunisia and Tripoli.
      • Might evolve into a multi-ethnic, partly Francophone state given the large Algerian and Tunisian influences—unless independence movements force the French out.
  3. Fezzan (“Tribal Haven” in Southern Sahara):

    • Capital: Sebha or Murzuq, or perhaps a new desert “federation capital” in the Fezzan region.
    • Territory: Sprawling desert domain stretching across southwestern Libya into southern Algeria (the Hoggar mountains, the Tamanrasset region, etc.).
    • Population: Sparse but diverse. Toubou, Tuareg, Arab desert tribes, Kel Ahaggar in southern Algeria, and some Berber enclaves.
    • Economy:
      • Historically dependent on oasis agriculture, trans-Saharan trade, smuggling routes, and potentially newly discovered oil or minerals in southwestern Algeria.
      • Could be quite poor unless it negotiates resource deals with France, Britain, or international oil companies.
    • Politics: Possibly a loose confederation of tribal groups who prefer local autonomy. France might maintain a strong military presence for “stability,” or to keep watch over the Sahara.

5) International Relations

  • France likely remains heavily involved in Tripolitania (due to Tunisia and Algeria) and also in Fezzan (due to southern Algeria).
  • Britain probably supports the monarchy in Greater Cyrenaica.
  • Egypt (under King Farouk until 1952, then under Nasser) might attempt to influence “Greater Cyrenaica,” especially in the eastern regions.
  • Cold War tensions: By the late 1950s and 1960s, both the USA and USSR would be interested in the newly discovered oil fields in Cyrenaica, as well as in establishing airbases or alliances in the region.

6) Possible Flags

Below are text-based descriptions of hypothetical flags for each of the three states. The idea is to evoke some historical or cultural elements associated with each region. Of course, you can adjust colors, symbols, or layouts to suit your alternate-history imagination.


A) Cyrenaica (Greater Cyrenaica)

  • Background / Inspiration: Historically, the Emirate of Cyrenaica used a black flag with a white crescent and star in the center (the same basic design was later adapted for the Kingdom of Libya but with modifications, such as stripes for Tripolitania and Fezzan).
  • Proposed Alternate Flag:
    1. Field Color: Black (primary background), symbolizing the historical Sanusi flag.
    2. Crescent and Star: White crescent and star in the middle.
    3. Green Stripe: A vertical (or diagonal) green stripe near the hoist, to represent the “fertile region” of the Cyrenaican coast—and to connect to Islamic heritage.
    4. Gold / Sand Trim: A thin gold border or a horizontal sand-colored stripe along the bottom, hinting at the desert that now forms most of “Greater Cyrenaica.”

Visually (simplified text description):

| Green Str. | Black field (center) with large white crescent & star | 
Across bottom edge: a thin sand/gold line

B) Tripolitania (The Maghrebi Coast State)

  • Background / Inspiration:
    • Traditional Tripolitanian colors are sometimes seen as red and black, but with a strong presence of the crescent and star motif (as part of older Libyan or Ottoman influence).
    • Because this new “Tripolitania” also includes Tunisia and parts of Algeria, you might integrate the red-and-white coloring of Tunisia or the green-white of Algerian symbolism.
  • Proposed Alternate Flag:
    1. Two Vertical Halves:
      • Red on the hoist side (inspired by Tunisia’s flag),
      • Green on the fly side (a nod to the Algerian and broader Islamic / North African color).
    2. White Crescent and Star: Centered over the dividing line between red and green.
    3. Black Fimbriation (Thin Black Outline): Possibly around the crescent/star or as a thin separator between red and green.

Visually (simplified text description):

Left half: Red   |  Right half: Green
                 |
  White crescent and star straddling the center
  Thin black border separating the two halves

C) Fezzan (Tribal Haven State)

  • Background / Inspiration: Fezzan historically used black and green in the old monarchy-era (when combined in the national flag with the other stripes for Tripolitania and Cyrenaica). As a “tribal haven” and desert region, you might see more “earthy” or “Saharan” shades.
  • Proposed Alternate Flag:
    1. Base Color: Sand / Light Brown (representing the desert).
    2. Central Stripe: A horizontal or vertical black stripe, signifying both unity (a band across the desert) and the traditional black color that once represented Fezzan in the 1951–1969 monarchy flag.
    3. Tribal Symbols: Possibly incorporate a stylized camel silhouette, a palm tree, or a Tifinagh character to acknowledge Tuareg/Berber heritage—centered in white or green over the black stripe.
    4. Green Crescent: A small green crescent near the hoist, acknowledging Islam and also linking it to the broader Maghreb.

Visually (simplified text description):

Sand-colored background
A wide horizontal black stripe across the middle
Center of black stripe: white palm tree or Tifinagh symbol
Top-left corner: small green crescent

7) Long-Term Outcomes (Speculative)

  • “Greater Cyrenaica” becomes extremely oil-rich after the mid-1950s. The monarchy tries to modernize but may face opposition from western tribes suspicious of Benghazi/Tobruk’s dominance. Could become an ally of Britain and the US, allowing airbases in exchange for development funds.

  • “Tripolitania-Maghreb” possibly faces intense anticolonial struggles if France tries to maintain direct control in Algeria’s coastal zone. Tunisian nationalists (like Bourguiba historically) might ally with Tripolitanian politicians to form a “People’s Republic.” It could eventually break free from France in the 1950s or 1960s, leading to complex negotiations over how the territory is governed.

  • “Fezzan Federation” remains loosely governed by local sheikhs, with France’s occasional interference from across the southern Algerian border. Smuggling, desert trade, and tribal alliances shape daily life. Fezzan might rely on foreign deals (oil or uranium in the Sahara) for income. A strong local identity emerges, mixing Toubou, Tuareg, and Arab traditions.

  • Regional Tensions: Each state has different foreign backers. Borders are huge and mostly desert, so smuggling, weapons trafficking, and occasional clashes are possible. Relations with Egypt, the newly independent states of the Maghreb (Morocco, if it remains separate; a bigger “Tripolitania” that includes Tunisia and Algeria?), and the rest of Africa become complicated.


8) Final Thoughts

Your three-part partition of Libya and surrounding territories in 1950 creates a major reshuffle of North African boundaries. This arrangement would have affected:

  • Colonial transitions (French control in Algeria/Tunisia, British influence in Cyrenaica).
  • Oil distribution (mostly in “Greater Cyrenaica”).
  • Nationalist movements (fighting for independence in Tunis, Algiers, and beyond).
  • Tribal autonomy in a large “Fezzan Federation.”

In short, this is a drastically different map from the one we know. Even if it might seem improbable from a real-world standpoint, it makes for an intriguing alternate history scenario. The flags offered above provide a quick artistic suggestion for how each new entity might visually express its identity. Feel free to adjust symbols, colors, or designs to create your own unique take on these three states.

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