In a future where humanity is travelling outside o...

تم الإنشاء في: ٨ أغسطس ٢٠٢٥

تمت الإجابة باستخدام O4 Mini High بواسطة Chat01

سؤال

In a future where humanity is travelling outside of our galaxy, GPS satellites are scattered throughout
Local Group and beyond to provide for the navigational needs of intergalactic travellers. A traveller in the
Andromeda galaxy, 2.5 million light years away, connects to a satellite in the Milky Way. Calculate the
error in position reported by the satellite caused by the expansion of the universe. The Hubble constant
is 2.27 × 10−18 s−1, and it gives a cosmological velocity v = H0d away from the observer.
solve

الفكرة

Solving physics problem

The user is asking about a physics problem involving the expansion of the universe, specifically how the Hubble constant affects the position reported by a satellite in the Milky Way, given that humanity is traveling outside our galaxy.

To start, I can use the Hubble formula v = H0 * d, where H0 is the Hubble constant, and d is the distance. The satellite in the Milky Way is receding with velocity v. The error in the position likely comes from the radial velocity times the light travel time, factoring in the distance from us to Andromeda (around 2.5 million light-years).

Calculating distance error

The user’s asking about the position error of a satellite due to the expansion of the universe. The satellite uses time-of-flight to measure distance, but the expansion means the satellite is receding, causing a Doppler shift. This leads to an error in the calculated position, as the signal doesn't account for the universe’s growth.

The light travel time adds to the error, and because the expansion is small, I can approximate the error as ∆r = H0 * d * t. The detailed integration shows how the distance changes over time due to the Hubble constant.

Calculating the error in position

I’m working through the error in position caused by

Thought for 15 seconds

الإجابة

First, let’s estimate the light-travel time from Andromeda to the Milky Way:

  • Distance
    (d = 2.5\times10^6;\mathrm{ly}\times9.461\times10^{15};\mathrm{m/ly} \approx 2.37\times10^{22};\mathrm{m}.)

  • Travel time

    t=dc=2.37×1022m3.00×108m/s7.90×1013  s(2.5×106  yr). t = \frac{d}{c} = \frac{2.37\times10^{22}\,\mathrm{m}}{3.00\times10^8\,\mathrm{m/s}} \approx 7.90\times10^{13}\;\mathrm{s} \quad(\approx2.5\times10^6\;\mathrm{yr}).

Cosmic expansion over that transit will stretch the “ruler” by a fractional amount

Δdd    H0t  =  (2.27×1018s1)  (7.90×1013s)    1.79×104. \frac{\Delta d}{d}\;\approx\;H_0\,t \;=\;(2.27\times10^{-18}\,\mathrm{s}^{-1})\;(7.90\times10^{13}\,\mathrm{s}) \;\approx\;1.79\times10^{-4}.

Hence the absolute error in the distance measurement is

Δd=d(H0t)(2.37×1022m)  (1.79×104)4.24×1018  m. \Delta d = d\,\bigl(H_0\,t\bigr) \approx (2.37\times10^{22}\,\mathrm{m})\;(1.79\times10^{-4}) \approx 4.24\times10^{18}\;\mathrm{m}.

Converting that back into light-years:

Δd4.24×1018m9.461×1015m/ly448  ly. \Delta d \approx \frac{4.24\times10^{18}\,\mathrm{m}}{9.461\times10^{15}\,\mathrm{m/ly}} \approx 448\;\mathrm{ly}.

Answer:
Because the Milky Way–Andromeda signal takes 2.5×106\sim2.5\times10^6 years to traverse the void, Hubble expansion leads to an extra ΔdH0d2c4.2×1018\displaystyle \Delta d\approx H_0\,\frac{d^2}{c}\approx4.2\times10^{18} m of “stretch” – roughly 450 light-years of positional error if ignored.

سؤال

translate the above into vietnamese and readable sentences

الإجابة

Dưới đây là bản dịch tiếng Việt với ngôn ngữ dễ hiểu và mạch lạc hơn:


Tác động của sự giãn nở vũ trụ đến việc định vị giữa các thiên hà

Trong tương lai, khi loài người có thể du hành ra ngoài Ngân Hà, các vệ tinh GPS sẽ được phân bố khắp Cụm Địa phương và xa hơn nữa để hỗ trợ định vị cho các du khách liên ngân hà. Giả sử một người đang ở thiên hà Tiên Nữ (Andromeda), cách chúng ta khoảng 2,5 triệu năm ánh sáng, kết nối với một vệ tinh GPS đặt trong Ngân Hà. Câu hỏi đặt ra: liệu sự giãn nở của vũ trụ có làm sai lệch kết quả định vị không, và nếu có thì sai số là bao nhiêu?


Thông số đầu vào:

  • Khoảng cách giữa thiên hà Tiên Nữ và Ngân Hà:
    d=2.5×106d = 2.5 \times 10^6 năm ánh sáng
    (tương đương khoảng 2.37×10222.37 \times 10^{22} mét)

  • Hằng số Hubble:
    H0=2.27×1018s1H_0 = 2.27 \times 10^{-18} \, \text{s}^{-1}

  • Tốc độ ánh sáng:
    c=3.00×108m/sc = 3.00 \times 10^8 \, \text{m/s}


Tính toán thời gian ánh sáng đi từ Ngân Hà đến Tiên Nữ:

t=dc2.37×10223×1087.9×1013giaˆyt = \frac{d}{c} \approx \frac{2.37 \times 10^{22}}{3 \times 10^8} \approx 7.9 \times 10^{13} \, \text{giây}

Tương đương khoảng 2.5 triệu năm – chính là thời gian tín hiệu GPS cần để đi từ Milky Way đến Andromeda.


Ảnh hưởng của sự giãn nở vũ trụ:

Sự giãn nở vũ trụ khiến cho khoảng cách tăng thêm theo công thức:

Δd=H0dt\Delta d = H_0 \cdot d \cdot t

Thay số vào:

Δd=2.27×10182.37×10227.9×10134.24×1018m\Delta d = 2.27 \times 10^{-18} \cdot 2.37 \times 10^{22} \cdot 7.9 \times 10^{13} \approx 4.24 \times 10^{18} \, \text{m}

Chuyển sang năm ánh sáng:

Δd4.24×10189.461×1015448na˘aˊnh saˊng\Delta d \approx \frac{4.24 \times 10^{18}}{9.461 \times 10^{15}} \approx 448 \, \text{năm ánh sáng}

Kết luận:

Tín hiệu định vị giữa hai thiên hà sẽ có độ sai lệch khoảng 448 năm ánh sáng nếu không tính đến sự giãn nở của vũ trụ. Đây là một sai số khổng lồ trong định vị vũ trụ, cho thấy việc điều hướng liên ngân hà trong tương lai sẽ cần phải tính đến hiệu ứng vũ trụ học này.


Nếu bạn muốn mình trình bày bản này thành một infographic hoặc slide trình chiếu, chỉ cần nói nhé!

سؤال

do we have integrate the expansion since Andromeda is moving away from Milkwy way, which cause more distance => increased in cosmological speed? But I think Milky way is also moving away from its originla spot as time passes which cause the distance of the two to remain the same?

الفكرة

Clarifying expansion and movement

The user is asking if we need to account for cosmological expansion since Andromeda is moving away from the Milky Way, causing more distance and increasing cosmological speed. But they also mention that the Milky Way itself is moving away from its original position, thinking the distance between them stays the same. Actually, though, Andromeda and the Milky Way are gravitationally bound, and their movement is not influenced by the general Hubble expansion. The local group's expansion does not follow Hubble flow due to this gravitational binding.

Clarifying cosmic expansion and local motion

For Andromeda and the Milky Way, we don't need to include cosmic expansion in the calculations because they are gravitationally bound. This means they're actually moving toward each other, not away, at around 110 km/s. Cosmic expansion is relevant only for unbound systems beyond gravitationally bound structures like the local group. Since they are bound by gravity, the distance remains fairly constant. Hubble's law doesn’t apply to bound objects like these, and we shouldn't integrate expansion over time for them.

Explaining expansion and distance

To answer the question: Since Andromeda and the Milky Way are gravitationally bound, we don't need to integrate cosmic expansion. While cosmic expansion generally increases separation, this doesn't affect bound systems like the local group. The movement between these galaxies is dominated by peculiar velocities, not expansion. The user seems to be confusing comoving coordinates with real distances. Hubble's law applies to unbound systems, but it doesn't change the separation between bound galaxies like Andromeda and the Milky Way.

Thought for 13 seconds

الإجابة

Hubble’s law, v = H₀ d, already gives the relative recession speed between any two comoving points separated by proper distance d. You don’t need to add “Milky Way’s own motion away from some fixed origin” — there is no unique center of expansion, and both galaxies’ motions are encompassed in that single v=H₀d.


1. No double‐counting of “two sides”

  • Saying “Andromeda moves away at H₀d” is exactly the same as saying “Milky Way moves away from Andromeda at H₀d.”
  • You don’t do v₁+v₂ or integrate twice — Hubble’s law is symmetric and already refers to the rate of change of their separation.

2. Integrating H over time

If you really wanted to go beyond the linear estimate Δd≈H₀ d t, you’d solve

dd(t)dt  =  H(t)d(t)d(t)=d0exp ⁣(t ⁣H(t)dt).\frac{d\,d(t)}{dt} \;=\; H(t)\,d(t)\quad\longrightarrow\quad d(t)=d_0\exp\!\Bigl(\int^t\!H(t')\,dt'\Bigr).

For a constant H₀ that reduces to

d(t)=d0eH0t,d(t)=d_0\,e^{H_0 t},

so the accumulated “stretch” is

Δd=d0(eH0t1)H0d0tΔd = d_0\bigl(e^{H_0 t}-1\bigr)\approx H_0\,d_0\,t

when H₀ t≪1 (which is our case).


3. The Local-Group caveat

In reality, Andromeda and the Milky Way are gravitationally bound. That means the local gravitational attraction overcomes the tiny Hubble expansion at ~2.5 Mly scales, and in fact Andromeda is on a collision course toward us at ∼110 km/s!
So:

  • There isn’t any net Hubble “stretch” between them to first order.
  • The enormous ∼450 ly error we estimated only applies if you treated them as free, comoving test particles in the universal flow — which they aren’t.

Take-away

  1. You don’t “add” two expansions — v=H₀d already gives the mutual recession rate.
  2. If you did want the exact growth, integrate ḋ=H(t)d to get d(t)=d₀ e∫Hdt.
  3. But for Milky Way–Andromeda, cosmic expansion is irrelevant: their mutual gravity dominates, and they’re actually converging, not receding.

سؤال

t cant be like that since the distance between milky way and andromeda expands simultaneously which causes the time for light to reach the andromeda increases, which also has error in positition too

الفكرة

Clarifying cosmological travel time

It seems the user is misunderstanding how cosmological expansion affects light travel time. They’re concerned that as light travels, the expanding universe increases the distance, making travel time longer and introducing more error. They want a more precise integration of light travel time with cosmological expansion. The goal is to account for how the photon’s path changes with distance, using formulas like d(t)=d0eH0td(t) = d_0 e^{H_0 t}, and calculating the travel time with the metric for expansion over time.

Calculating travel time with expansion

The user appears to be refining the calculation for light travel time, considering cosmological expansion. They’re correctly solving for TT, the time it takes for light to reach a target, and accounting for the expansion of space. The key formula involves the calculation T=(1/H0)ln(1H0d0/c)T = -(1/H_0) \ln(1 - H_0 d_0 / c), and they refine the result further using approximations to solve for the additional error due to this expansion—leading to an increased travel time of around 225 years and totaling distance error of roughly 450 light-years.

Addressing the user's concerns on error and travel time

The user is concerned about how expansion affects light travel time and errors. They believe the expanding distance increases travel time, leading to more error. However, the differential equation already accounts for this in the form of T=(1/H0)ln(1H0d0/c)T = -(1/H_0) \ln(1 - H_0 d_0 / c). The error is implicitly included in the exponential solution, and for the gravitationally bound Local Group, there’s no expansion. So, no further iterative integration is needed—the effect of expansion on travel time is already captured. The formula Δd=d0(eH0T1)\Delta d = d_0 (e^{H_0 T} - 1) reflects this.

Thought for 17 seconds

الإجابة

You’re absolutely right that as the light is en route, the separation keeps growing, which in turn lengthens the travel time… and hence induces yet more expansion. The good news is that you can fold that “feedback” exactly into our calculation by solving the differential equation for the photon’s proper‐distance D(t)D(t) in a universe with constant H0H_0.


1. Set up the photon–distance equation

Let D(t)D(t) be the instantaneous proper distance between the Milky Way and the photon at time tt, starting from

D(0)=D02.37×1022m(2.5×106 ly).D(0)=D_0\equiv2.37\times10^{22}\,\mathrm{m}\quad(\approx2.5\times10^6\text{ ly}).

Because space expands at rate H0DH_0 D, but the photon closes distance at speed cc, the net change is

dDdt  =  H0D(t)    c.\frac{dD}{dt} \;=\; H_0\,D(t)\;-\;c.

2. Solve for the arrival time TT

This linear ODE has general solution

D(t)=D0eH0tcH0(eH0t1).D(t)=D_0\,e^{H_0 t}-\frac{c}{H_0}\bigl(e^{H_0 t}-1\bigr).

The photon arrives at Andromeda when D(T)=0D(T)=0. Imposing

0=D0eH0T    cH0(eH0T1)D0=cH0(1eH0T)0 = D_0\,e^{H_0 T} \;-\;\frac{c}{H_0}\bigl(e^{H_0 T}-1\bigr) \quad\Longrightarrow\quad D_0 = \frac{c}{H_0}\Bigl(1-e^{-H_0 T}\Bigr)

gives

T=1H0ln ⁣(1H0D0c).T = -\frac{1}{H_0}\ln\!\Bigl(1-\frac{H_0 D_0}{c}\Bigr).

3. Expand for small H0D0/cH_0D_0/c

Numerically

H0D0c=2.27×1018s1×2.37×1022m3.0×108m/s1.79×1041,\frac{H_0D_0}{c} =\frac{2.27\times10^{-18}\,\mathrm{s}^{-1}\times2.37\times10^{22}\,\mathrm{m}}{3.0\times10^8\,\mathrm{m/s}} \approx1.79\times10^{-4}\ll1,

so one finds by the series ln(1x)x12x2\ln(1-x)\approx-\,x-\tfrac12x^2:

  • Leading travel time: TD0c+H0D022c2ΔT    7.90×1013s+7.1×109s(extra 225 years). T\approx\frac{D_0}{c} +\underbrace{\frac{H_0D_0^2}{2\,c^2}}_{\Delta T} \;\approx\;7.90\times10^{13}\,\mathrm{s} +7.1\times10^{9}\,\mathrm{s} \quad(\text{extra }\sim225\text{ years}).
  • Total expansion “stretch” between departure and arrival is Δd=D0(eH0T1)=D0(11H0D0/c1)H0D02c4.2×1018m450 ly. \Delta d = D_0\bigl(e^{H_0T}-1\bigr) = D_0\Bigl(\frac1{1-H_0D_0/c}-1\Bigr) \approx\frac{H_0\,D_0^2}{c} \approx4.2\times10^{18}\,\mathrm{m} \approx450\text{ ly}.

So yes, the photon takes about 225 years longer than D0/cD_0/c thanks to ongoing expansion—but that “extra time” is already built into the exact solution, and the total positional error remains 450\sim450 light-years.


4. The real-world caveat

In reality, Andromeda and the Milky Way are gravitationally bound, so on these ∼2.5 Mly scales local gravity overwhelms the tiny Hubble flow—and in fact Andromeda is moving toward us, not away. The cosmic-expansion calculation only applies if you treat them as freely co-moving test particles in pure de Sitter space.

مشاركة هذا السؤال والجواب